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	<title>Comments on: Stop That Paying Customer! The Legality of Compulsory Receipt-Checking</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 11:41:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Viper</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-2/#comment-2379</link>
		<dc:creator>Viper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 01:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-2379</guid>
		<description>My question on membership clubs / stores...

usually anywhere in a contract if they cancelled my membership for not showing my receipt I&#039;d file another lawsuit..

Their agreements and contracts all have the little nugget  - something to the effect of any part of the agreement that is not legal is not expected to be upheld.  all contracts have this.

So even if agreed upon to save money ... any part of the process that is illegal or grey would then be mute and if they cancelled a membership due to a grey area on the contract they lose a customer and possibly a civil claim as well.

A line to exit is stupid... a line to purchase and patronize is fine... but not to exit.. even if it is for one minute or less... that is forced detainment...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My question on membership clubs / stores&#8230;</p>
<p>usually anywhere in a contract if they cancelled my membership for not showing my receipt I&#8217;d file another lawsuit..</p>
<p>Their agreements and contracts all have the little nugget  &#8211; something to the effect of any part of the agreement that is not legal is not expected to be upheld.  all contracts have this.</p>
<p>So even if agreed upon to save money &#8230; any part of the process that is illegal or grey would then be mute and if they cancelled a membership due to a grey area on the contract they lose a customer and possibly a civil claim as well.</p>
<p>A line to exit is stupid&#8230; a line to purchase and patronize is fine&#8230; but not to exit.. even if it is for one minute or less&#8230; that is forced detainment&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tommy</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-2/#comment-2341</link>
		<dc:creator>tommy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-2341</guid>
		<description>thanks for the article. made sense and very informative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the article. made sense and very informative.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Marcell</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-2270</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Marcell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-2270</guid>
		<description>I too get real hacked off that, as a shopper, I am treated like a common &#039;hood thief.  I did have a guy at the Walmart here in Nashville run over to me to check my receipt.  He seemed annoyed that I did not pay heed.  My receipt was in my left hand, clearly seen as he approached me from my left.

Walmart can kiss my butt for my money.  And if more consumers would do likewise, this may abate.

You see, when I leave my money at the checkout, the title of the goods passes from the store, to me.  They then become my property, and that receipt is the contract stating this.  I never thought about it much until this time, but this will only get worse until the shopping public demands better.  When I go to Sams, I do not get upset, as that is the way they operate, and by signing on, you agree to that up front.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too get real hacked off that, as a shopper, I am treated like a common &#8216;hood thief.  I did have a guy at the Walmart here in Nashville run over to me to check my receipt.  He seemed annoyed that I did not pay heed.  My receipt was in my left hand, clearly seen as he approached me from my left.</p>
<p>Walmart can kiss my butt for my money.  And if more consumers would do likewise, this may abate.</p>
<p>You see, when I leave my money at the checkout, the title of the goods passes from the store, to me.  They then become my property, and that receipt is the contract stating this.  I never thought about it much until this time, but this will only get worse until the shopping public demands better.  When I go to Sams, I do not get upset, as that is the way they operate, and by signing on, you agree to that up front.</p>
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		<title>By: Steveg</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-2259</link>
		<dc:creator>Steveg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-2259</guid>
		<description>This kind of shenanigans is still going strong: Consumerist is running an article about a guy who got tackled for refusing to show his receipt on the way out of walmart.

Hooray for mob vigilante justice!

&lt;a href=&quot;http://consumerist.com/5406007/reader-says-he-was-tackled-at-walmart-for-not-showing-receipt&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://consumerist.com/5406007/reader-says-he-was-tackled-at-walmart-for-not-showing-receipt&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This kind of shenanigans is still going strong: Consumerist is running an article about a guy who got tackled for refusing to show his receipt on the way out of walmart.</p>
<p>Hooray for mob vigilante justice!</p>
<p><a href="http://consumerist.com/5406007/reader-says-he-was-tackled-at-walmart-for-not-showing-receipt" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://consumerist.com/5406007/reader-says-he-was-tackled-at-walmart-for-not-showing-receipt');" rel="nofollow">http://consumerist.com/5406007/reader-says-he-was-tackled-at-walmart-for-not-showing-receipt</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pay Lay Ale</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-2090</link>
		<dc:creator>Pay Lay Ale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 08:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-2090</guid>
		<description>&quot;A company or a citizen can, however, detain an individual for the police provided s/he has probable cause that the detainee committed a crime.&quot;

In most, states yes. In this scenario, the citizen is acting as an agent for the government. If there was no probable cause, then that citizen has civil and possible criminal liability. A citizen or a police officer cannot detain a person unless there was probable cause that a crime was committed. 

&quot;As far as the receipt checks go, they are entirely voluntary. Stores like Best Buy and Walmart can ask you for your receipt, and you can do what you want: comply, say “no thanks”, keep walking, sneer, etc. I never show a receipt, ever, unless I’m contractually obligated (Costco).&quot;

Membership or not, they cannot physically detain you unless they have probable cause that you committed a crime, namely shoplifting. You&#039;re not contractually obligated at costco either. Their receipt check is a policy that is outlined in a brochure you receive after paying for a membership. They have every right to revoke your membership and/or trespass you, but they cannot physically detain you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A company or a citizen can, however, detain an individual for the police provided s/he has probable cause that the detainee committed a crime.&#8221;</p>
<p>In most, states yes. In this scenario, the citizen is acting as an agent for the government. If there was no probable cause, then that citizen has civil and possible criminal liability. A citizen or a police officer cannot detain a person unless there was probable cause that a crime was committed. </p>
<p>&#8220;As far as the receipt checks go, they are entirely voluntary. Stores like Best Buy and Walmart can ask you for your receipt, and you can do what you want: comply, say “no thanks”, keep walking, sneer, etc. I never show a receipt, ever, unless I’m contractually obligated (Costco).&#8221;</p>
<p>Membership or not, they cannot physically detain you unless they have probable cause that you committed a crime, namely shoplifting. You&#8217;re not contractually obligated at costco either. Their receipt check is a policy that is outlined in a brochure you receive after paying for a membership. They have every right to revoke your membership and/or trespass you, but they cannot physically detain you.</p>
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		<title>By: Scoots</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-1994</link>
		<dc:creator>Scoots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 01:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-1994</guid>
		<description>Greetings, 

Decent article overall, but I&#039;m wondering about the relationship between the shopkeeper&#039;s privilege and citizen&#039;s arrest (common law or statutory) -- particularly since more and more stores like to dress their rent-a-cops in pseudo-police costume.  (I&#039;m always tempted to ask where the construction worker and the biker are.)  Do you have any thoughts on this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings, </p>
<p>Decent article overall, but I&#8217;m wondering about the relationship between the shopkeeper&#8217;s privilege and citizen&#8217;s arrest (common law or statutory) &#8212; particularly since more and more stores like to dress their rent-a-cops in pseudo-police costume.  (I&#8217;m always tempted to ask where the construction worker and the biker are.)  Do you have any thoughts on this?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-1945</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 03:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-1945</guid>
		<description>@Pay Lay Ale:  No, the 4th Amendment does not apply to private companies / individuals.  Only government.

A company or a citizen can, however, detain an individual for the police provided s/he has probable cause that the detainee committed a crime.  

In practice, anybody at all at anytime can ask you to submit to a search.  And you can refuse, unless you are under arrest or already in jail/prison.

As far as the receipt checks go, they are entirely voluntary.  Stores like Best Buy and Walmart can ask you for your receipt, and you can do what you want:  comply, say &quot;no thanks&quot;, keep walking, sneer, etc.  I never show a receipt, ever, unless I&#039;m contractually obligated (Costco).

So if you are like me, and Mr. Righi, and do not like the implication that you are a criminal shoplifter just for buying something in a store, keep walking and don&#039;t show the receipt to anyone.  What you bought is now your property, including the receipt.

Walmart once had the police stop me on the road after leaving a store without showing a receipt, and the cops let me go.  I got a $50 gift certificate out of it because I threatened to sue.  Stop being treated like a criminal -- just say no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pay Lay Ale:  No, the 4th Amendment does not apply to private companies / individuals.  Only government.</p>
<p>A company or a citizen can, however, detain an individual for the police provided s/he has probable cause that the detainee committed a crime.  </p>
<p>In practice, anybody at all at anytime can ask you to submit to a search.  And you can refuse, unless you are under arrest or already in jail/prison.</p>
<p>As far as the receipt checks go, they are entirely voluntary.  Stores like Best Buy and Walmart can ask you for your receipt, and you can do what you want:  comply, say &#8220;no thanks&#8221;, keep walking, sneer, etc.  I never show a receipt, ever, unless I&#8217;m contractually obligated (Costco).</p>
<p>So if you are like me, and Mr. Righi, and do not like the implication that you are a criminal shoplifter just for buying something in a store, keep walking and don&#8217;t show the receipt to anyone.  What you bought is now your property, including the receipt.</p>
<p>Walmart once had the police stop me on the road after leaving a store without showing a receipt, and the cops let me go.  I got a $50 gift certificate out of it because I threatened to sue.  Stop being treated like a criminal &#8212; just say no.</p>
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		<title>By: Pay Lay Ale</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-1871</link>
		<dc:creator>Pay Lay Ale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 07:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-1871</guid>
		<description>Pete said, &quot;The 4th amendment doesn’t apply to private property and institutions.&quot;

It absolutely does. Private property owners and institutions do not have the right to physically detain you or forcibly search you unless they have probable cause that a crime has occurred. PERIOD. End of story.

As private property owners, they can make searches a condition of admission to the property or trespass you and deny you future re-entry if you refuse to consent to a search. 

If they detain or forcibly search you in any way without probable cause, then you can sue for false arrest/imprisonment/detainment. Security personnel may face criminal penalties depending on the state. 

The specific definitions of probable cause vary by state. In general, security/loss prevention needs to:

# See the suspect approach the merchandise
# See the suspect select the merchandise
# See the suspect conceal, carry away or convert the merchandise
# Must maintain continuous observation the suspect 
# Must see the suspect fail to pay for the merchandise</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete said, &#8220;The 4th amendment doesn’t apply to private property and institutions.&#8221;</p>
<p>It absolutely does. Private property owners and institutions do not have the right to physically detain you or forcibly search you unless they have probable cause that a crime has occurred. PERIOD. End of story.</p>
<p>As private property owners, they can make searches a condition of admission to the property or trespass you and deny you future re-entry if you refuse to consent to a search. </p>
<p>If they detain or forcibly search you in any way without probable cause, then you can sue for false arrest/imprisonment/detainment. Security personnel may face criminal penalties depending on the state. </p>
<p>The specific definitions of probable cause vary by state. In general, security/loss prevention needs to:</p>
<p># See the suspect approach the merchandise<br />
# See the suspect select the merchandise<br />
# See the suspect conceal, carry away or convert the merchandise<br />
# Must maintain continuous observation the suspect<br />
# Must see the suspect fail to pay for the merchandise</p>
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		<title>By: Kolino</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-1803</link>
		<dc:creator>Kolino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-1803</guid>
		<description>Let me start off by saying that i worked at a best buy where they also do reciept checks.They also search the employees jackets and bags (manditory embarasment 1 time a month for half of the emploees)  They try to turn it around on the customers by saying many products look similar and the cashier may ring up the wrong item and charge too much.  Why then would the wrong barcode be on the product?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me start off by saying that i worked at a best buy where they also do reciept checks.They also search the employees jackets and bags (manditory embarasment 1 time a month for half of the emploees)  They try to turn it around on the customers by saying many products look similar and the cashier may ring up the wrong item and charge too much.  Why then would the wrong barcode be on the product?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-1787</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-1787</guid>
		<description>Just common sense here. The 4th amendment doesn&#039;t apply to private property and institutions. That is their rules. If the store was government owned and the workers paid for with government money, then you&#039;d have a case. The reality is that the constitution has no grounds in the private sector, or even on the State level (that&#039;s part of the reason why we have state constitutions). Constitutional law deals with what government and especially federal government can do, not private security guards. Bogus. Bull.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just common sense here. The 4th amendment doesn&#8217;t apply to private property and institutions. That is their rules. If the store was government owned and the workers paid for with government money, then you&#8217;d have a case. The reality is that the constitution has no grounds in the private sector, or even on the State level (that&#8217;s part of the reason why we have state constitutions). Constitutional law deals with what government and especially federal government can do, not private security guards. Bogus. Bull.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-1782</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36#comment-1782</guid>
		<description>today Circuit City asked the bankruptcy court to end the chapter 11 protection and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/circuit-city-seek-court-approval/story.aspx?guid=%7BF9B304C2%2DD9F3%2D492C%2D93CC%2DC280DC56198A%7D&amp;dist=TQP_Mod_mktwN&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;allow for chapter 7 liquidation&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>today Circuit City asked the bankruptcy court to end the chapter 11 protection and <a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/circuit-city-seek-court-approval/story.aspx?guid=%7BF9B304C2%2DD9F3%2D492C%2D93CC%2DC280DC56198A%7D&amp;dist=TQP_Mod_mktwN" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/circuit-city-seek-court-approval/story.aspx?guid=%7BF9B304C2%2DD9F3%2D492C%2D93CC%2DC280DC56198A%7D&amp;dist=TQP_Mod_mktwN');" rel="nofollow">allow for chapter 7 liquidation</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.thelegality.com/2008/03/12/stop-that-paying-customer-the-legality-of-compulsory-receipt-checking/comment-page-1/#comment-1780</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>First, Hello to all you Stumblers who continue visiting- if you like this article, please do give us a thumbs-up.  

Second, I&#039;d like to point out that Mr. Righi was able to bring his legal difficulties to a satisfactory conclusion, which &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.michaelrighi.com/2007/09/20/success/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;he has detailed at his website here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, Hello to all you Stumblers who continue visiting- if you like this article, please do give us a thumbs-up.  </p>
<p>Second, I&#8217;d like to point out that Mr. Righi was able to bring his legal difficulties to a satisfactory conclusion, which <a href="http://www.michaelrighi.com/2007/09/20/success/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.michaelrighi.com/2007/09/20/success/');" rel="nofollow">he has detailed at his website here</a>.</p>
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